It seems that an old lie is resurfacing, or maybe I've just enjoyed some respite from the

lies.  The idea that the founding fathers of America were agnostics, deists, and spiritists

is just that a lie, at least on the scale that most atheists will try to assert.

 

This lie is told for several reasons, all of which have the sum total of maintaining a party

line that insists that "seperation of church and state" is so completely twisted that the

spiritual and moral conscience is completely divorced government.  This idea only has

value to people with ulterior motives...

 

take the issue of seperation of church and state for example, we have had the phrase

"constitutional seperation of church and state" shoved at us so many times that no one

stopped to see if that language is even in the constitution, or what the origin and intent

was and we swallow the lie hook, line and sinker.

The phrase "seperation of church and state" does not come from any of our founding

documents, but rather a private coorespondence between the Thomas Jefferson and the

Danbury Baptist Association... wherein they found themselves AGREEING.  So what

was the intent of that phrase?  Let's turn to the original documents, language, and self

asserting context for our answers rather than ANY editorializing in our pursuit of the

truth.

"Sir,

Among the many million in America and Europe who rejoice in your

election to office; we embrace the first opportunity which we

have enjoyed in our collective capacity, since your inauguration,

to express our great satisfaction, in your appointment to the

chief magistracy in the United States: And though our mode of

expression may be less courtly and pompous than what many others

clothe their addresses with, we beg you, sir, to believe that

none are more sincere.



Our sentiments are uniformly on the side of religious

liberty--that religion is at all times and places a matter

between God and individuals--that no man ought to suffer in name,

person, or effects on account of his religious opinions--that the

legitimate power of civil government extends no further than to

punish the man who works ill to his neighbors; But, sir, our

constitution of government is not specific. Our ancient charter

together with the law made coincident therewith, were adopted as

the basis of our government, at the time of our revolution; and

such had been our laws and usages, and such still are; that

religion is considered as the first object of legislation; and

therefore what religious privileges we enjoy (as a minor part of

the state) we enjoy as favors granted, and not as inalienable

rights; and these favors we receive at the expense of such

degrading acknowledgements as are inconsistent with the rights of

freemen. It is not to be wondered at therefore; if those who seek

after power and gain under the pretense of government and

religion should reproach their fellow men--should reproach their

 

because he will not, dare not, assume the prerogatives of Jehovah and make laws to

govern the kingdom of Christ.

Sir, we are sensible that the president of the United States is not the national legislator,

and also sensible that the nationalgovernment cannot destroy the laws of each state;

but our hopes are strong that the sentiments of our beloved president, which have had

such genial effect already, like the radiant beams of the sun, will shine and prevail

through all these states and all the world, till hierarchy and tyranny be destroyed from

the earth.

Sir, when we reflect on your past services, and

see a glow of philanthropy and good will shining forth in a course of more than thirty

years we have reason to believe that America's God has raised you up to fill the chair of

state out of that goodwill which he bears to the millions which you preside over. May

God strengthen you for your arduous task which providence and the voice of the people

have called you to sustain and support you enjoy administration against all the

predetermined opposition of those who wish to raise to wealth and importance on the

poverty and subjection of the people.

And may the Lord preserve you safe from every evil and bring you at last to his heavenly

kingdom through Jesus Christ our Glorious

Mediator.

Signed in behalf of the association,  Nehemiah Dodge

                                      Ephraim Robbins

 

 Thomas Jefferson's letter was amiable, but short and to the point.  But it is here that we

see the phrase "seperation of church and state" first appear.

Taken from Andrew Lipscomb and Albert Bergh, The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, Vol., 16, pp. 281-282.

"Gentlemen,

The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so

good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist

Association, give me the highest satisfaction. My duties dictate a faithful

and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, and in proportion

as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them

becomes more and more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man

and his God, that he owes account to none other for is faith or his

worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and

not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole

American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law

respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise

thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church and State.

Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of

the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress

of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights,

convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection and blessing of the

common Father and Creator of man, and tender you for yourselves and

your religious association, assurances of my high respect and esteem.

signed, Thomas Jefferson"

 

So within these documents we see clearly that the origin and intent was

nothing other that the Danbury Baptist's reasonable fear, after hearing of a

rumor the the Congregational Church was going to be made the state

religion...that religious liberty would be abridged in the same manner as it

had been in Europe.  Indeed, congress went through many gyrations

deciding which religion ought to be the state religion before settling on the

idea that NO religion ought to be so established as to march over the free

conscience of others.  It was, in fact, the Baptists who so instructed

congress through the elegant and powerful arguments of Patrick Henry on

their behalf.  You see at one point it was the Baptists themselves who

were to be made the state religion AGAINST their protests.  Congress

happened upon this idea due to the fact that the Baptists were the only

people RESISTING such establishment even to their benefit, so it was

believed they were the only people trustworthy enough to wield such

power.  The Baptists however had an older history than that of other

denominations and KNEW the dangers of ANY such establishment.  More

information on this point can be had on my Baptist History page on this

site. 

 

"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation

was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on

the gospel of Jesus Christ! For this very reason peoples of faiths have

been afforded asylum, and freedom of worship here."  -Patrick Henry

Suffice it to say that moral conscience, and national morality are

permanently linked to religious sentiment...as noted by our first president

in his closing inaugeral address.

"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity,

religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man

claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor to subvert these great

pillars of human happiness - these firmest props of the duties of men and

citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect

and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connections with

private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked, Where is the security for

property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert

the oaths which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice?

And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be

maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of

refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience

both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of

religious principle."  -George Washington

"Of all the conspiracies most likely to usurpe power from a free people

history has taught us that the divorcement of religious thought, and free

moral conscience from the administration and participation of and in  their

own government is the most devastating and complete imaginable."

-Sir James

(of The Knights of True North)